Vi is present on nearly every *nix system in existance, from big
servers to whatever is in your refridgerator. It is also on OSX.
Vi is essentially a subset of vim. If you know vim you know vi. If you
constantly need to work on random systems anywhere - you are stuck
knowing the basics of Vi.
I think Vi without Vim is pretty bad as an editor - but I can still use
it. My fingers know what to do.
There is nothing else this is true of.
Vim is Vi on steroids.It is the default Vi in many places, but where it
isn't or windows where there is no decent text editor, Vim can easily be
installed when you are going to be working for more than a few
minutes.
I personally do not use but a fraction of the power of Vim, I have been
using it for almost a decade and I am a novice. some things are hard to
learn. but the power of even my limited knowledge is enormous. Sure
there are other editors that are really good. I have used and loved many
others, and some were friendlier. But none were everywhere.
So fine it takes a long time to get to the point where you can change
the 3rd to last word in each line to uppercase, prepend the first word
in the line, and append the line number in octal. But I am sure someone
here can tell you how to do that.
If you are going to live in eclipse and no where else - then you
probably should learn eclipses built in editor.
There are other editors that will be the best choice for other specific
scenarios.
My work dictates that I must know Vi fairly well. And Vim is available
- usually the default Vi in most of the places I work.
I don't care about the learning curve. I care more about the fact that
there are so many other tools like email, or ... that have their own
limited editing capability built in that do not work like Vim. Anyone
have a vim plugin for eclipse ? ThunderBird ?
On Tue, 2012-10-02 at 16:04 +0200, Marc Weber wrote:
> vim & emacs: Well - the whole discussion is pointless because we're not
> talking about "what should be learned".
>
> Even notepad can do things Vim can't: Open registry dump files!
>
> So use the right tool for a job. And if you want to learn about Vim -
> and you're helpless - then ask somebody knowing how to find the tool, or
> use the website. Its not a Vim problem. Yes - at the beginning I didn't
> knew how to quit Vim - yet I learned it. I even was too dump to
> understand the press :q because ":" is often used as separator - and I
> only experienced the Windows world before.
>
> You all say productivity of Vim is great - well - yes after writing tons
> of plugins (depending on what you do) - and even then you feel limited.
> Or why do people start writing eclim like bridges (talking about
> programming).
>
> Now is Eclipse more productive than Vim?
> Eclipse can highlight used and unused #ifdef regions, Vim cannot
> (AFAIK).
> Thus given infinite amount of time - which tool will be more productive
> if your task is to understand fast which lines are actually used?
>
> So don't forget that there are also other tools - and use what it fits
> your needs.
>
> And if you're worried that new users fail to get started with Vim - then
> teach them how to use google instead of telling them where to find help.
>
> Linux users will soon learn that there is "man", Windows users are used
> to F1 and a Help menu - and everything exists and works.
>
> However
>
> :helpgrep mailinglist does not show anything - WHY?
> :helpgrep irc shows nothing (but my own documentation of my plugins! [1])
> :helpgrep chat (same)
> :h community (does not exist)
> :helpgrep community (one hit: on the netbeans page)
>
> But its us helping new users and giving them those hints
>
> Should we fix that?
>
> So what about adding a help file about the community containing pointers
> to the internet relay chat, and the mailinglist?
>
> If "productivity" was the thing you want to measure - and if you're a
> writer - and think "Vim is the tool I always tried to learn" - then also
> have a look at plover: http://plover.stenoknight.com/
> It may allow you to write with 200WPMs and more after some training.
> Maybe that's providing a bigger "productivity boost" - than all Vim
> knowledge.
>
> So how do you feel about the community? Should we be mentioned in the
> help files?
>
> How much of you (readers of this mailinglist) would have benefited
> knowing about this mailinglist or the #vim irc chat room earlier?
>
> Marc Weber
>
> [1]
> vim-addon-haskell.txt|40 col 3| irc.freenode.net: MarcWeber
> vim-addon-manager-additional-documentation.txt|1147 col 21| Of course #git on irc.freenode.net is willing to help if you have trouble
> vim-addon-manager-getting-started.txt|38 col 6| Join irc.freenode.net, /join #vim. Ask there. VAM has many users
> tovl.txt|145 col 16| MarcWeber on irc.freenode.org or mail: marco-oweber@gmx.de
> lang_haskell.txt|133 col 16| MarcWeber on irc.freenode.org or mail: marco-oweber@gmx.de
>
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