Thursday, March 13, 2014

Re: Vim for Windows (Updated to 7.4.193)

I'm afraid you overextended the topic. Now, let's try to filter what you've presented with a cool head.

I've never said Perl is bad or anything like that. Every language has its own niche. The point was that many modern and very popular plugins these days are not written in Perl. That's what I meant by "trendy". Did you look through those 270 hits? Who uses those plugins? Or are they simply outdated legacy? I have tens of thousands of downloads of this Vim distribution and every user is free to create an issue to request something. I was requested Lua, for example. But nobody ever complained about the lack of Perl, and most likely because nobody cares about it, as nobody uses any plugins relying on it or does command-line scripting with it.

All the talks about the parallelism are beyond the scope of the Vim context discussion. They also seem to be a bit exaggerated in a way that I start to think that you are Perl fan, and that you are more to defend Perl on a whole, rather than discuss its importance in modern Vim. The efficiency of parallel code depends on lots of factors, the ones that you never even thought about, so again, I'd drop this topic from our discussion.

The fact that many other languages inherited something from Perl is true, and I've never claimed against it. But once again, that does support the main topic of our discussion. I could say that Java inherited a lot from C/C++, nevertheless Java still solves a great deal of problems (on modern market) much better than C/C++. Does that mean that I should prefer Java over C/C++? No, because at the same time C/C++ excel in other areas, and I'd rather choose the language according to its purpose and my requirements. In any case, this is again off topic.

There are plenty of debugger integrations for Vim out there, and therefore reasoning that IDE request is #2, and that just one of its aspects, debugger facility, was written in Perl is quite weak argument, and the connection is rather indirect.

I didn't expect this discussion to go into the realm of language clashes. I'm speaking from the point of view of raw numbers: who uses what and how many. Perl is far not on the top of language preferences for plugins these days. I'll be honest with you, I also don't like some points about Python for example, and maybe Perl is indeed better for certain goals. But the question is not about my or your subjective opinions. I'm trying to reason objectively when I prepare these distributions, i.e. I ask myself a question what other people need? That brings to the question: what is trendy? Which plugins people tend to use more? What is required from Vim distribution to support them? For instance, currently, it's hard to imagine useful Vim distribution without both versions of Python 2 and 3.
 
And no, I didn't link against shared libraries because that makes no sense. Can you give me a link to some very popular plugin which is written in Perl, and so that I could see that it is indeed used by many people, i.e. proof like downloads number or stars on GitHub or votes, etc. Proof with raw numbers is always worth a thousand words, otherwise your statements risk to be regarded as rant. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Regards,
Alexander

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