Hi Marc,
On Thu, 17 Apr 2025 10:07:41 +0200 Marc Chantreux wrote:
> hi Steven,
>
> I just realized I haven't replied this one. I read it but I'm in rush
> time for the moment so I'll investigate later.
It has been a few months, so I thought I should probably ask again.
Did you you have the time to have a look at this?
Thank you.
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Friday, November 21, 2025
Thursday, November 20, 2025
vim regexps and ERE and viml syntax
hello,
On Thu, Nov 20, 2025 at 05:24:20AM +0000, dvalin via vim_use wrote:
> [3]https://git.unistra.fr/mc/dot/-/blame/main/bin/tsveverything?ref_type=heads#L190
> Now, if vimscript were mostly awk, then we'd have the ultimate editor. :-)
Actually not :) awk is cool but
* its built in functions can be called with, user defined functions need parenthesis
* ithas no lambdas
* its array subscripts and datastructures are really limited
* it as no do (like in lisp or perl)
* ...
The viml of my dream is a mix of Raku (https://raku.org/) and viml itself.
the reason I wouldn't use neovim at all is because of the vim commands
you can directly use in viml like
:1
'a,34d
The problem is: Raku is huge. Maybe it's tunable enought to include vim
commands as slang (https://docs.raku.org/language/slangs)? IDK
but a raku+viml alien +
> > not to mention :so now support ranges \o/
would be the ultimate scripting langage (or maybe not: people from the APL
world have things to say about concision and readability. https://www.uiua.org/
seems impressive but I have no time to practice).
> > Again (because it was the goal of this mail): vim, in its actual
> > philosophy, is super important! Thanks a lot for maintaining it.
"actual" wasn't the good word: the *current* philosophy.
> decades makes life so much easier. (My only remaining wish would be Posix
> ERE regexes - the existing mish-mash of alternatives in Vim seems a lot of
> work and confusion, without quite getting there. Admittedly, \v comes
> close. And one just shells out to awk, when serious, anyway.)
Vim needs its own regexp engine because of patterns like
|/\%V| \%V \%V inside Visual area |/zero-width|
|/\%#| \%# \%# cursor position |/zero-width|
|/\%'m| \%'m \%'m mark m position |/zero-width|
|/\%l| \%23l \%23l in line 23 |/zero-width|
|/\%c| \%23c \%23c in column 23 |/zero-width|
|/\%v| \%23v \%23v in virtual column 23 |/zero-width|
I made my time to be confortable with it but now I'm really happy about
the vim regexp system now (I don't know how huge it is to maintain). I can
compare with grep: RE is the default but
ERE litteral insensitive
grep -E -F -i
vim \v \M \c
so I have
nnoremap / /\v
nnoremap ? ?\v
because
* most of the time, I want \v but sometimes I <del>M
* easier to remove \v (to come back to normal) than to type \v
to learn the basics of the syntax (when you have previous regexp
pexperience):
:h perl-patterns
:h /magic # the array comparing the syntaxes is very useful
:h /ordinary-atom
coming from perl and raku, I am sometimes frustrated (mostly because
there is no \x (like the //x) so we can write much more maintainable
regexps but things like M %% S (list of Ms separated by S) is also
really useful) but vim has some gems too like
\zs and \ze to start/end the match
\%[] : a sequence of optionally matched atoms
regards
--
Marc Chantreux
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On Thu, Nov 20, 2025 at 05:24:20AM +0000, dvalin via vim_use wrote:
> [3]https://git.unistra.fr/mc/dot/-/blame/main/bin/tsveverything?ref_type=heads#L190
> Now, if vimscript were mostly awk, then we'd have the ultimate editor. :-)
Actually not :) awk is cool but
* its built in functions can be called with, user defined functions need parenthesis
* ithas no lambdas
* its array subscripts and datastructures are really limited
* it as no do (like in lisp or perl)
* ...
The viml of my dream is a mix of Raku (https://raku.org/) and viml itself.
the reason I wouldn't use neovim at all is because of the vim commands
you can directly use in viml like
:1
'a,34d
The problem is: Raku is huge. Maybe it's tunable enought to include vim
commands as slang (https://docs.raku.org/language/slangs)? IDK
but a raku+viml alien +
> > not to mention :so now support ranges \o/
would be the ultimate scripting langage (or maybe not: people from the APL
world have things to say about concision and readability. https://www.uiua.org/
seems impressive but I have no time to practice).
> > Again (because it was the goal of this mail): vim, in its actual
> > philosophy, is super important! Thanks a lot for maintaining it.
"actual" wasn't the good word: the *current* philosophy.
> decades makes life so much easier. (My only remaining wish would be Posix
> ERE regexes - the existing mish-mash of alternatives in Vim seems a lot of
> work and confusion, without quite getting there. Admittedly, \v comes
> close. And one just shells out to awk, when serious, anyway.)
Vim needs its own regexp engine because of patterns like
|/\%V| \%V \%V inside Visual area |/zero-width|
|/\%#| \%# \%# cursor position |/zero-width|
|/\%'m| \%'m \%'m mark m position |/zero-width|
|/\%l| \%23l \%23l in line 23 |/zero-width|
|/\%c| \%23c \%23c in column 23 |/zero-width|
|/\%v| \%23v \%23v in virtual column 23 |/zero-width|
I made my time to be confortable with it but now I'm really happy about
the vim regexp system now (I don't know how huge it is to maintain). I can
compare with grep: RE is the default but
ERE litteral insensitive
grep -E -F -i
vim \v \M \c
so I have
nnoremap / /\v
nnoremap ? ?\v
because
* most of the time, I want \v but sometimes I <del>M
* easier to remove \v (to come back to normal) than to type \v
to learn the basics of the syntax (when you have previous regexp
pexperience):
:h perl-patterns
:h /magic # the array comparing the syntaxes is very useful
:h /ordinary-atom
coming from perl and raku, I am sometimes frustrated (mostly because
there is no \x (like the //x) so we can write much more maintainable
regexps but things like M %% S (list of Ms separated by S) is also
really useful) but vim has some gems too like
\zs and \ze to start/end the match
\%[] : a sequence of optionally matched atoms
regards
--
Marc Chantreux
--
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Wednesday, November 19, 2025
Re: sort in .tsv file
On 18.11.25 13:38, Marc Chantreux wrote:
> And that makes the codebase bigger, more maintainance to do, more
> possible vulnerabilities.
>
> will you also implement awk ? I hope not and it doesn't stops me to have
> a plugin that make vim looks like a spreadsheet
>
>
> based on few lines of viml + an awk script
>
Now, if vimscript were mostly awk, then we'd have the ultimate editor. :-) (My spreadsheeting has not yet gone beyond including a line of awk in a data table file, then executing that with a Vim-mapped keystroke, or e.g. for rainfall, doing the awk monthly totalling in the shell-aliased editing command, so it runs on exit.)
> not to mention :so now support ranges \o/
>
> Actually I think vim does too much things and The *only* feature I miss
> today is a global PreSystem autocommand so you can setup environement
> variables.
>
> au SystemPre {
> $cf = expand("<cfile>")
> $cF = expand("<cFILE>")
> $cf = expand("<cword>")
> $cF = expand("<cWORD>")
> }
>
> so I have to prefix ! and system() calls myself.
>
> Again (because it was the goal of this mail): vim, in its actual
> philosophy, is super important! Thanks a lot for maintaining it.
Enthusiastically seconded. There's nothing else as good. All the folding methods are brilliant, for example. A .vimrc tweaked over a number of decades makes life so much easier. (My only remaining wish would be Posix ERE regexes - the existing mish-mash of alternatives in Vim seems a lot of work and confusion, without quite getting there. Admittedly, \v comes close. And one just shells out to awk, when serious, anyway.)
Erik
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Tuesday, November 18, 2025
Re: Re: Re: :sort in .tsv file
--Subject: Re: :sort in .tsv file
On Mo, 17 Nov 2025, 'c.willis111 ' via vim_use wrote: > the /pattern/ feature of sort doesn't work if the recognized filetype is > .tsv (which gives alternate colours for successive fields). What exactly do you mean by this? Thanks, Christian --
Hi Christian
I have the .csv plugin.
When I use the pattern in the vim :sort command, it does not work as expected.
I was mistaken in an earlier message. I am sure this is due to the plugin. If I copy the file I am working on to a, so that the plugin no longer recognizes it as a .tsv, the sort works as I had expected originally. I then have to copy my result back to the .tsv file.
The question was, is there a neater way of using the vim sort.
regards - Chris
Hi Christian
it seems that if I type
:filetype plugin off
before my sort command, the sort works, despite the screen still showing the plugin layout. (Despite the fact that I still need to use the letter keys for extending the line visual area, rather than the cursor keys).
regards - Chris
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Re: sort in .tsv file
hello,
On Tue, Nov 18, 2025 at 11:22:40AM +0100, Christian Brabandt wrote:
> On Di, 18 Nov 2025, dvalin via vim_use wrote:
> > Despite having used Vim for several decades now, I'm still allergic to
> > the effort to make Vim into Emacs, by doing stuff in-house in cases
> > where it's much easier to just use what's already provided on any *nix
> > distro. To perform those four sorts in Vim, with fewer keystrokes,
> > this works for me
that's why vim9 is so important: ! ( <range>! , w! r! ...), jobs and
channels, system(), libcall() and the ed inspiration remaining in the
vim9script with the new braces driven :command syntax is wonderful.
those make vim the only modern editor with the unix philosophy roots
(with others instead of becoming fat)
that's the main difference with neovim (the emacs of the ones who
started with vim). a better neovim is emacs over racket + a viper mode
that takes vim ergonomy (text objects and so on) more seriously but they
ends with vim+lua.
> While that is true, it doesn't help anybody who doesn't have GNU
> coreutils installed.
that's untrue: BSD tools (also available on macos), sbase, 9base,
busybox are that capable too. Yes, windows people are screwed but they
chosen their destiny :)
also: zsh (also default on macos too) is a much much better bash which
is really easy to combine with vim because of details like the twigil
for expansions (so you don't have to quote things when you !).
once you add your suffixes aliases in your ~/.zshenv, you can use
:!<cfile> or :!<cWORD> to open urls and files. at home I have
@ (
{fr,de,com,org,net,re,ninja}=url_opener
{git,gh}=git:latest
{wad,pk3}=wador
{png,gif,jpg,jpeg,bmp,tiff,tga,webp}=feh
{docx,xlsx,odt}=libreoffice
{html,svg}=chromium
{xcf}=gimp
{1..8}{,posix,plan9,p}=man
{ps,eps,pdf,djvu}='(){
>> ~/.was-read realpath "$@"
zathura "$@"
}'
{wav,mp3,ogg,flac,opus,mp4,mkv,webm}='(){
>> ~/.was-play realpath "$@"
vlc "$@"
}'
) alias -s $it
most of my "plugins" are just thin wrappers over tools I wrote to be
used outside vim so vim is just another environement to interact with a
global workflow
> That's the reason the :sort command was added to Vim.
And that makes the codebase bigger, more maintainance to do, more
possible vulnerabilities.
will you also implement awk ? I hope not and it doesn't stops me to have
a plugin that make vim looks like a spreadsheet
https://git.unistra.fr/mc/dot/-/blob/main/vim/pack/_/start/tsv/ftplugin/tsv.vim
based on few lines of viml + an awk script
https://git.unistra.fr/mc/dot/-/blob/main/vim/r/setvts.vim
https://git.unistra.fr/mc/dot/-/blame/main/bin/tsveverything?ref_type=heads#L190
not to mention :so now support ranges \o/
Actually I think vim does too much things and The *only* feature I miss
today is a global PreSystem autocommand so you can setup environement
variables.
au SystemPre {
$cf = expand("<cfile>")
$cF = expand("<cFILE>")
$cf = expand("<cword>")
$cF = expand("<cWORD>")
}
so I have to prefix ! and system() calls myself.
Again (because it was the goal of this mail): vim, in its actual
philosophy, is super important! Thanks a lot for maintaining it.
Marc
--
Marc Chantreux
--
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On Tue, Nov 18, 2025 at 11:22:40AM +0100, Christian Brabandt wrote:
> On Di, 18 Nov 2025, dvalin via vim_use wrote:
> > Despite having used Vim for several decades now, I'm still allergic to
> > the effort to make Vim into Emacs, by doing stuff in-house in cases
> > where it's much easier to just use what's already provided on any *nix
> > distro. To perform those four sorts in Vim, with fewer keystrokes,
> > this works for me
that's why vim9 is so important: ! ( <range>! , w! r! ...), jobs and
channels, system(), libcall() and the ed inspiration remaining in the
vim9script with the new braces driven :command syntax is wonderful.
those make vim the only modern editor with the unix philosophy roots
(with others instead of becoming fat)
that's the main difference with neovim (the emacs of the ones who
started with vim). a better neovim is emacs over racket + a viper mode
that takes vim ergonomy (text objects and so on) more seriously but they
ends with vim+lua.
> While that is true, it doesn't help anybody who doesn't have GNU
> coreutils installed.
that's untrue: BSD tools (also available on macos), sbase, 9base,
busybox are that capable too. Yes, windows people are screwed but they
chosen their destiny :)
also: zsh (also default on macos too) is a much much better bash which
is really easy to combine with vim because of details like the twigil
for expansions (so you don't have to quote things when you !).
once you add your suffixes aliases in your ~/.zshenv, you can use
:!<cfile> or :!<cWORD> to open urls and files. at home I have
@ (
{fr,de,com,org,net,re,ninja}=url_opener
{git,gh}=git:latest
{wad,pk3}=wador
{png,gif,jpg,jpeg,bmp,tiff,tga,webp}=feh
{docx,xlsx,odt}=libreoffice
{html,svg}=chromium
{xcf}=gimp
{1..8}{,posix,plan9,p}=man
{ps,eps,pdf,djvu}='(){
>> ~/.was-read realpath "$@"
zathura "$@"
}'
{wav,mp3,ogg,flac,opus,mp4,mkv,webm}='(){
>> ~/.was-play realpath "$@"
vlc "$@"
}'
) alias -s $it
most of my "plugins" are just thin wrappers over tools I wrote to be
used outside vim so vim is just another environement to interact with a
global workflow
> That's the reason the :sort command was added to Vim.
And that makes the codebase bigger, more maintainance to do, more
possible vulnerabilities.
will you also implement awk ? I hope not and it doesn't stops me to have
a plugin that make vim looks like a spreadsheet
https://git.unistra.fr/mc/dot/-/blob/main/vim/pack/_/start/tsv/ftplugin/tsv.vim
based on few lines of viml + an awk script
https://git.unistra.fr/mc/dot/-/blob/main/vim/r/setvts.vim
https://git.unistra.fr/mc/dot/-/blame/main/bin/tsveverything?ref_type=heads#L190
not to mention :so now support ranges \o/
Actually I think vim does too much things and The *only* feature I miss
today is a global PreSystem autocommand so you can setup environement
variables.
au SystemPre {
$cf = expand("<cfile>")
$cF = expand("<cFILE>")
$cf = expand("<cword>")
$cF = expand("<cWORD>")
}
so I have to prefix ! and system() calls myself.
Again (because it was the goal of this mail): vim, in its actual
philosophy, is super important! Thanks a lot for maintaining it.
Marc
--
Marc Chantreux
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Re: Re: :sort in .tsv file
-------- Original Message ------
From: cblists@256bit.org
To: vim_use@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 18th 2025, 10:24
Subject: Re: :sort in .tsv file
On Mo, 17 Nov 2025, 'c.willis111 ' via vim_use wrote: > the /pattern/ feature of sort doesn't work if the recognized filetype is > .tsv (which gives alternate colours for successive fields). What exactly do you mean by this? Thanks, Christian --
Hi Christian
I have the .csv plugin.
When I use the pattern in the vim :sort command, it does not work as expected.
I was mistaken in an earlier message. I am sure this is due to the plugin. If I copy the file I am working on to a, so that the plugin no longer recognizes it as a .tsv, the sort works as I had expected originally. I then have to copy my result back to the .tsv file.
The question was, is there a neater way of using the vim sort.
regards - Chris
--
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Re: :sort in .tsv file
On Mo, 17 Nov 2025, 'c.willis111 ' via vim_use wrote:
> the /pattern/ feature of sort doesn't work if the recognized filetype is
> .tsv (which gives alternate colours for successive fields).
What exactly do you mean by this?
Thanks,
Christian
--
"We are on the verge: Today our program proved Fermat's next-to-last theorem."
-- Epigrams in Programming, ACM SIGPLAN Sept. 1982
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> the /pattern/ feature of sort doesn't work if the recognized filetype is
> .tsv (which gives alternate colours for successive fields).
What exactly do you mean by this?
Thanks,
Christian
--
"We are on the verge: Today our program proved Fermat's next-to-last theorem."
-- Epigrams in Programming, ACM SIGPLAN Sept. 1982
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