Re: OT: The so called "steep learning curve" of vim...

What I think happens sometimes is that someone is perhaps is for the first time stuck with only his Linux tty and has to fix something. The only editor he has is vi/vim he knows how to pass a file as an argument. He opens the file and can't get it to edit or makes edits and can't close it.Swearing ensues, until he either figures it out or gives up, stating emphatically that he will never use that editor or "what the hell was that? How do people use that?" and another link in the chain is formed.

On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 12:07 PM, Tony Mechelynck <antoine.mechelynck@gmail.com> wrote:

On 30/09/12 22:47, Tim Chase wrote:

On 09/30/12 08:37, meino.cramer@gmx.de wrote:

it is often said, taht certain software has a "steep learning curve".
Vi/vim is such an example for the use of this phrase...

I would take the time as measure for the x-axis and the amount
of stuff I have learned about -- for example -- vim as a measure
for the y-axis..

Or...what do I misinterpret here? ;)

I think the misinterpretation is that the x-axis should be labeled
"effort learning new stuff over time", not just "time"; and the
y-axis would be "productivity".

A "shallow" learning curve would then mean that, with minimal
effort, one achieves some corresponding level of productivity.

With Vim, the average user that hasn't gone through basic training
(vimtutor, reading man pages, etc) is usually pretty lost with
things as basic as quitting.  So the graphs would look something like

[...]

                    Vim
P|              **
r|            **
o|          **
d|         *
u|        *
c|       *
t|      *
i|     *
v|     * <-- the infamous steep curve
i|     *
t|     *
y| ***** <-- time spent learning before you can do anything
-+----------------------------------------------------------
  | Effort over time --->

[...]

How can it be "infamous" to suddenly become a lot more productive in no time at all? (It's possible, let's say it suddenly all "clicks" and makes sense in your mind.) Or maybe it's the part before that which is "infamous", where it takes some non-negligible effort before you can do anything at all? But then, why call it "steep" when one pictures it as flat? No matter how I look at it, there's something I don't grok.

I would picture it this way:

 ^
 |                                                                    o
 |                                                                   o
 |                                                                  o
 |                                                                 o (2)
 |                                                                o
 |                                                               o
 |                                                              o
 |                                                             o
 |                                                *************  (1)
 |                                 ***************
 |                 ****************
 |          ******* ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Your productivity takes off,
 |        ** /                   you literally start "running"
 |      **  / Learning by doing, in real conditions
 |    **   /  (incl. learning-by-doing how to use the help)
E|   * :
f|  *  :
f|  *  : Studying the vim-tutor
o| *   : (OK, it takes some effort) (I suppose this is the so-called
r| *   : "steep" learning curve, but puh-lease! Just studying the
t|*    : included manual, and it would be too much?)
;o----------------------------------------------------------------------->
;; Productivity

(1) OK, I suppose there's a limit to how much you can do how fast, so you stop here for a time: no additional effort, no additional productivity.
(2) But any time you want to study some more, or any time you put some effort into combining stuff you already knew, you can increase your productivity, maybe just a little at a time.

Best regards,
Tony.
--
Yes, but which self do you want to be?

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