>
> From: Tony Mechelynck <antoine.mechelynck@gmail.com>
> To: vim_use@googlegroups.com
> Cc: scott2237@yahoo.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 6:05 PM
> Subject: Re: AT&T shutting down listmail
>
> On 02/02/13 21:23, toothpik wrote:
> > On January 27 I stopped receiving vim list mail in my ISP's inbox. (My
> > ISP is AT&T).
> > After logging in to my account in Firefox I found over 300 vim emails in
> > my Spam folder.
> > After moving those to my Inbox, fetchmail was able to retrieve them for
> > me the normal
> > way, but since then no vim mail whatsoever has gone into my Spam folder
> > or my Inbox.
> >
> > Calling the company you descend into automated-voice-response hell, and
> > when you
> > get to a human you're guaranteed they are reading from scripts written
> > for Windows or
> > Mac only, and you will never connect with anyone who will admit they are
> > performing
> > spam filtering.
> >
> > They offer a feature they call SpamGuard, which I have verified and
> > re-verified is turned
> > off, but I receive no spam in the account at all. No spam whatsoever
> > (!) with SpamGuard
> > disabled. So they are classifying spam for me, and in their infinite
> > wisdom they have
> > decided the vim mail is spam and I am not to send or receive it. Yes, I
> > tried to send to
> > the list an email similar to this and it never got here.
> >
> > So -- anyone thinking about signing up AT&T as their ISP, specifically
> > with the Uverse
> > service, consider that they will be chipping away at the services they
> > provide and
> > deciding for you what you get to see. When I started with SWBell they
> > hosted my
> > web page for me. Then they morphed into AT&T, and I morphed into
> > Uverse, and
> > suddenly no more web hosting, oh, and they stopped serving usenet -- I
> > have to pay
> > a third party for that. Now I can neither send nor receive vim mail.
> > What's
> > next? Peer-to-peer comes to mind...
> >
> > This is a bad trend -- AT&T is probably the largest service provider in
> > the country,
> > and arguably the most pig-headed, and they seem to be on a path to
> > reduce services
> > and remold the internet in their image.
> >
> > Uverse does provide the best cable available -- my television works
> > during storms,
> > unlike satelite providers, and while I can't claim there have been no
> > outages, they have
> > less outages than cable, and are very responsive when you call about one.
> >
> > Anyone with any ideas how I can get back to sending and receiving from
> > my "real"
> > ISP please share...
> >
> > sc
>
> I don't know AT&T but I'll tell you what I do about gmail which is what I
> use. With some luck, it might give you inspiration.
>
> Normally I get gmail mail by POP3 which means it arrives in SeaMonkey Mail
> (but it could be Thunderbird or Opera or Outlook Express or etc.) just the
> same way as mail from my skynet.be account. However, from time to time I use
> my browser to log into the gmail webmail page and do the following: - in the
> "Spam" folder, mark false positives (legit mail erroneously detected as spam)
> as "not spam", which moves them to the Inbox where the next poll of my Gmail
> POP server will find them. It also teaches the Bayesian filters so that
> similar mail will henceforward run less chance of being detected as spam. - in
> the "Trash" folder (containing mail I already got by POP), mark false
> negatives (i.e. mail which should have been detected as spam but wasn't) as
> "spam" in order to teach the Bayesian filters, so that next time, similar
> messages will have a higher chance of being detected as spam. This also moves
> these messages to the "spam" folder.
>
> After some time, doing this repeatedly teaches the Gmail spam filters what
> kind of mail I regard as spam and what kind I regard as nonspam. The result is
> pretty good but never perfect.
>
> If there's no way you can get list mail to your AT&T account, I suppose
> the workaround is to subscribe to the list via some other account such as the
> yahoo account with which you posted the message to which I'm replying now. You
> should be able to get Yahoo mail without going through AT&T.
> From: Tony Mechelynck <antoine.mechelynck@gmail.com>
> To: vim_use@googlegroups.com
> Cc: scott2237@yahoo.com
> Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2013 6:05 PM
> Subject: Re: AT&T shutting down listmail
>
> On 02/02/13 21:23, toothpik wrote:
> > On January 27 I stopped receiving vim list mail in my ISP's inbox. (My
> > ISP is AT&T).
> > After logging in to my account in Firefox I found over 300 vim emails in
> > my Spam folder.
> > After moving those to my Inbox, fetchmail was able to retrieve them for
> > me the normal
> > way, but since then no vim mail whatsoever has gone into my Spam folder
> > or my Inbox.
> >
> > Calling the company you descend into automated-voice-response hell, and
> > when you
> > get to a human you're guaranteed they are reading from scripts written
> > for Windows or
> > Mac only, and you will never connect with anyone who will admit they are
> > performing
> > spam filtering.
> >
> > They offer a feature they call SpamGuard, which I have verified and
> > re-verified is turned
> > off, but I receive no spam in the account at all. No spam whatsoever
> > (!) with SpamGuard
> > disabled. So they are classifying spam for me, and in their infinite
> > wisdom they have
> > decided the vim mail is spam and I am not to send or receive it. Yes, I
> > tried to send to
> > the list an email similar to this and it never got here.
> >
> > So -- anyone thinking about signing up AT&T as their ISP, specifically
> > with the Uverse
> > service, consider that they will be chipping away at the services they
> > provide and
> > deciding for you what you get to see. When I started with SWBell they
> > hosted my
> > web page for me. Then they morphed into AT&T, and I morphed into
> > Uverse, and
> > suddenly no more web hosting, oh, and they stopped serving usenet -- I
> > have to pay
> > a third party for that. Now I can neither send nor receive vim mail.
> > What's
> > next? Peer-to-peer comes to mind...
> >
> > This is a bad trend -- AT&T is probably the largest service provider in
> > the country,
> > and arguably the most pig-headed, and they seem to be on a path to
> > reduce services
> > and remold the internet in their image.
> >
> > Uverse does provide the best cable available -- my television works
> > during storms,
> > unlike satelite providers, and while I can't claim there have been no
> > outages, they have
> > less outages than cable, and are very responsive when you call about one.
> >
> > Anyone with any ideas how I can get back to sending and receiving from
> > my "real"
> > ISP please share...
> >
> > sc
>
> I don't know AT&T but I'll tell you what I do about gmail which is what I
> use. With some luck, it might give you inspiration.
>
> Normally I get gmail mail by POP3 which means it arrives in SeaMonkey Mail
> (but it could be Thunderbird or Opera or Outlook Express or etc.) just the
> same way as mail from my skynet.be account. However, from time to time I use
> my browser to log into the gmail webmail page and do the following: - in the
> "Spam" folder, mark false positives (legit mail erroneously detected as spam)
> as "not spam", which moves them to the Inbox where the next poll of my Gmail
> POP server will find them. It also teaches the Bayesian filters so that
> similar mail will henceforward run less chance of being detected as spam. - in
> the "Trash" folder (containing mail I already got by POP), mark false
> negatives (i.e. mail which should have been detected as spam but wasn't) as
> "spam" in order to teach the Bayesian filters, so that next time, similar
> messages will have a higher chance of being detected as spam. This also moves
> these messages to the "spam" folder.
>
> After some time, doing this repeatedly teaches the Gmail spam filters what
> kind of mail I regard as spam and what kind I regard as nonspam. The result is
> pretty good but never perfect.
>
> If there's no way you can get list mail to your AT&T account, I suppose
> the workaround is to subscribe to the list via some other account such as the
> yahoo account with which you posted the message to which I'm replying now. You
> should be able to get Yahoo mail without going through AT&T.
Which is how we are having this conversation right now.
> Whether you can
> _send_ Yahoo mail without going through the AT&T SMTP servers is a different
> question: for instance my ISP blocks me from sending anything on any of the
> various SMTP ports (with or without SSL/TLS) to any IP address except its own
> SMTP servers, so I have to send my "gmail" outgoing mail through the
> "relay.skynet.be" SMTP server. Again, I don't know AT&T, so I don't know how
> closely it watches your outgoing connections.
Unfortunately they are letting nothing through with which I might train
their filters -- nothing at all is going into my Spam folder, nothing spam, or
vim related in my Inbox. It's not a bayesian filter, it's a drunken block.
I might have had a slight window of opportunity when I had the 300 vim
emails in Spam if instead of moving them to Inbox I had attempted to train
their system, but at this point I feel so helpless I just want a real ISP.
> _send_ Yahoo mail without going through the AT&T SMTP servers is a different
> question: for instance my ISP blocks me from sending anything on any of the
> various SMTP ports (with or without SSL/TLS) to any IP address except its own
> SMTP servers, so I have to send my "gmail" outgoing mail through the
> "relay.skynet.be" SMTP server. Again, I don't know AT&T, so I don't know how
> closely it watches your outgoing connections.
Unfortunately they are letting nothing through with which I might train
their filters -- nothing at all is going into my Spam folder, nothing spam, or
vim related in my Inbox. It's not a bayesian filter, it's a drunken block.
I might have had a slight window of opportunity when I had the 300 vim
emails in Spam if instead of moving them to Inbox I had attempted to train
their system, but at this point I feel so helpless I just want a real ISP.
sc
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